sWo Terror

[soug]

Dave, still think you should change Terrors stats to the original ones I sent you,or at least my "modified"ones.
you see i dont want any of my characters to be "stacked" or unbeatable.
Some are strong on defence others on offence.....rarely ( if ever)on both.
also promoters should use COTG guidelines.
It may sound like im whining, but it peeves me to see wrestlers with better comebacks on level 2 defence than level 1 defence !!

there ive had my whinge... ;D

[rock]

my 2 cents is this. When this board started, the only "altering" of stats was going to make them follow the "guidelines" that Tom has shared with us! Changing stats without the creator's permission is inexcusable and should not be happening! Unless the changes was made to fit the "guidelines", then fine. If you changed them just because you didn't like them, that's wrong!

Ray

[soug]

the cotg guidelines dont seem to be put in place......with some characters...

[soug]

i think each player should list the characters that they are not "happy" with. characters they think are way outside the cotg guidelines. what do you think ?

[dpbarnes]

soug said:

i think each player should list the characters that they are not "happy" with. characters they think are way outside the cotg guidelines. what do you think ?

I only make minor changes to character in order to conform them to Filsinger's guidelines. However, I have been known to let a few mistakes slip by once in a while. The biggest thing I change on the character cards is when someone put all 4 chart situations on the card at once (They'll put a Ropes Chart or Turnbuckle Chart instruction on either level 1 or 2 offense. Sometimes they'll split it up and put a ropes chart on 1 and a turnbuckle on 2 or vice versa. Then they go and put a deathjump and out of the ring instruction on Level 3 offense) That's usually when I go and put a (ch A) or a (ch B) after one of their level 2 offensive moves, removing the "illegal" instruction. That leaves a blank space that needs to be filled with something, so what I do is look through my old copy of Ray Duffy's Big Bad Book of Wrestling Moves and try to find a move that would be in line with the character I'm "cleaning up". Sometimes I'll see on Level 3 Offense where someone gives a deathjump instruction, and then repeats the instruction by adding a (ch G) or (ch H), and I'll make an appropriate change there.

[soug]

but dave,you're allowed to have all chart situations on a card.again,you should concentrate on the "comeback stats". Oh and the changes to Terror werent minor.
not having a go at you .....just my opinion

[dpbarnes]

Against my better judgement, I have added the unedited versions of sWo Beast and sWo Terror onto the PFW Roster page, and will be using them this week on the WRESTLE-BALOO pay per view card, even though I feel they're full of guideline "mistakes". I don't want to cause any unneeded or unwanted friction between myself and Soug. I'll give the unedited versions a try and see what happens.

[soug]

thats cool dave.why do you think Terror and Beast are outside the guidelines. As for ropes, turnbuckle etc moves it clearly states that all characters should incorporate all charts, that being ropes , turnbuckle etc....
what of the characters that have greater comebacks on level 2 defence than level 1 defence ?
what of the characters that have -3 moves on level 1 offence and 3 -3 moves on level 2 offence?
what of the characters with an awesome defence and a pin rating of 4 (1) ?
And almost everyone has more than 1 finisher! I only used 2 finishers for my characters in the PFW because everyone else does. Rarely do my bootleg characters have 2 finishers....nor should they.
just wondering..

I know you're worried that Terror and Beast might become jobbers....but they wouldnt if other characters werent so "stacked".
My thinking behind Terror and Beast are like the big men of the GWF. Look at Man-Mountain, Chopper, Exo-King even Brute. They were so-so on offence, tough on defence....hard to knock off their feet....but once they were "down" they all had "high" pin
ratings.

[dpbarnes]

soug said:

thats cool dave.why do you think Terror and Beast are outside the guidelines. As for ropes, turnbuckle etc moves it clearly states that all characters should incorporate all charts, that being ropes , turnbuckle etc....
what of the characters that have greater comebacks on level 2 defence than level 1 defence ?
what of the characters that have -3 moves on level 1 offence and 3 -3 moves on level 2 offence?
what of the characters with an awesome defence and a pin rating of 4 (1) ?
And almost everyone has more than 1 finisher! I only used 2 finishers for my characters in the PFW because everyone else does. Rarely do my bootleg characters have 2 finishers....nor should they.
just wondering..

I know you're worried that Terror and Beast might become jobbers....but they wouldnt if other characters werent so "stacked".
My thinking behind Terror and Beast are like the big men of the GWF. Look at Man-Mountain, Chopper, Exo-King even Brute. They were so-so on offence, tough on defence....hard to knock off their feet....but once they were "down" they all had "high" pin
ratings.

I saw nothing wrong with both Beast and Terror having two finishers. I mean, hell, Chaos in the GWF had 3[/u][/i]. That wasn't the problem with your guys. If you were to do a comparison of both character's unedited and edited cards, you'd see what "mistakes" I've found. For instance:

TERROR:

* Into the Ropes was repeated, once on Level 1 Offense, and then on Level 2 Offense. The two Out of the Rings on Level 3 Offense were okay, because Tom has always said that the only chart situation that is allowed to be repeated was "out of the ring".

* There was no deathjump chart situation for Terror, according to the unedited copy I have, which was why, since he needed a second (ch) anyway, I gave him a (ch G).

* On level 3 defense, there's no (lv) option. Is that supposed to mean that Terror never leaves the ring to "break his opponent's momentum"?

BEAST:

* Again, there was no deathjump chart situation, and only one (ch), which is why I gave him the extra deathjump (ch) situation.

* You only had one (c) after the chart situations you had listed, so I gave you one on the edited version.

* According to Tom, you can't have Into the Ropes, Into the Turnbuckle, and 2 Out of the Rings. When he first published the character creation guidelines, I asked him for clarification on that, giving him the scenario of using Into the Ropes and repeating Out of the Ring. According to him, that's all you can have on that character, the turnbuckle situation had to be accounted for by a (ch B), and deathjump had to be accounted for by either the (ch G) or (ch H).

That's the kinds of things I change when I do the "clean-up" work on everybody's characters. If offensive or defensive stats are "stacked", I wouldn't notice, because my experience in creating character stats is only intermediate at best that I wouldn't be able to recognized a "stacked" character right away. I only look for the stats following the guidelines, and I'm OK with it. I hope that clarifies things for you.

[soug]

dave you make some good points.
I'm happy for you to use your edited versions of Terror and Beast.
But I still think they are stacked along with other characters in the fed. You can use the edited versions....I guess at least they will be competitive !!!I just dont think there should be that many "top" characters.
Maybe we should limit each group to 4 , one being a stand out, two mid to top card wrestlers and one mid carder.

ever thought of re starting the fed......with all characters being reviewed ? Sought of a re-application job ?

there seems to be really only 4-5 guys that contribute.....so maybe they should have 4 members in their team and then contribute another 1-2 characters for a "pool" of unaffiliated characters which you can do what you like with them....

Just a thought.


oh....and just so you know, there is no friction between us, and you're doing a good job with the fed.

[frank2]

Dave if you need some unaffilated wrestlers to fill out the roster I could bring in a few ...

[dpbarnes]

frank2 said:

Dave if you need some unaffilated wrestlers to fill out the roster I could bring in a few ...

I'll think about it and let you know.